Not so much family but church friends who say this of their kids. Mostly like “they are sinners being parented by sinners” so we both need Jesus. I still need some time to untangle “through one man sin entered the world” and that NOT meaning all of a sudden every single human after that was a worm, so reading these thoughts and coming back to them is really helpful. I guess I’ve heard for so long the support for original sin/total depravity that I just need more inputs of something different and honestly more beautiful.
I can remember the first time a professor pushed on the idea that we can take sin seriously and acknowledge our part in it without making it who we are at all times. Game changer.
Do you have any recommended resources that reinforce this idea? I love everything you have written and like Christa said, it’s so ingrained in me I need more inputs.
Agree with you, Christa. It’s hard to even read the Bible through this new lens. For me, all the total depravity stuff is embedded and hyperlinked so many times that it’s hard to not read it as such. But I’m so grateful for a new perspective and hoping to grow to see this as my default.
Another banger from Meredith Miller!!! This was one of the most revelatory things I ever learned, and I learned it well into adulthood/parenting. It let me give up the part of my self worth that said I was a wretch who would always be broken in one way or another. I remember the first time I shared it with people I loved, and they all balked: “what about SIN?” And unfortunately those friends are still there, believing humans are garbage heaps until they accept Jesus. It’s rough, but I’m so thankful there’s another way.
I've struggled with this because I know how damaging the concept of total depravity has been for many people, but I've personally found so much freedom in it. I grew up being taught that I was made in the image of God, and God is good, but I was keenly aware of the huge chasm between what God was like and what I was like. It felt like maybe I was actually NOT made in the image of God, and I needed to hide that fact so no one would find out. Finally being told I was 'bad' was a life-changing paradigm shift. Only God is good and I am not, and that's okay! He loves me because HE is good, in the same way that I (imperfectly) love my kids -- they're goodness or badness is completely beside the point for why I love them. There is no why -- I just love them. It was as if being told I was bad suddenly made it stop mattering so much. Maybe I just have a shallow theology here or an incorrect definition of total depravity? I would really appreciate any insight because I don't want my kids to feel shame from the concept of total depravity, and I also don't want them to feel like it's a bad thing if they don't feel good (or good enough).
So I think maybe what you've experienced is closer to what I'm saying than it is to total depravity. (And language around this is loose in everyday vernacular, so I think the word is squishy.) But it's pretty core to depravity that people are wholly incapable of ANY good (which, like, watching people be both their good and bad selves shows is just silly).
It's not just "we can't save ourselves" or "we all mess up and it's going to be ok because of God". It leads to "you can't trust yourself because what you want is usually wrong and sinful" and "it's ok to control non-Christians because they can't be trusted to be moral", etc. Naming that people are people and God is God is just a good practice for being anchored in reality.
Yeah, that's an important follow up. For a lot of folks, the big thing is that it's narrow, with just one right answer. The "Why is Easter Good News?" series here is meant to help explore that one, just by looking at a few of the different ways the Bible talks about sin and Jesus' resurrection.
Raised Methodist, then spent 21 years, frustrated, raising kids in TULIP…still repairing damage in self and adult kids. This is a well-written description of what has been difficult for me to express. Thank you.
Not so much family but church friends who say this of their kids. Mostly like “they are sinners being parented by sinners” so we both need Jesus. I still need some time to untangle “through one man sin entered the world” and that NOT meaning all of a sudden every single human after that was a worm, so reading these thoughts and coming back to them is really helpful. I guess I’ve heard for so long the support for original sin/total depravity that I just need more inputs of something different and honestly more beautiful.
I can remember the first time a professor pushed on the idea that we can take sin seriously and acknowledge our part in it without making it who we are at all times. Game changer.
Do you have any recommended resources that reinforce this idea? I love everything you have written and like Christa said, it’s so ingrained in me I need more inputs.
Agree with you, Christa. It’s hard to even read the Bible through this new lens. For me, all the total depravity stuff is embedded and hyperlinked so many times that it’s hard to not read it as such. But I’m so grateful for a new perspective and hoping to grow to see this as my default.
Another banger from Meredith Miller!!! This was one of the most revelatory things I ever learned, and I learned it well into adulthood/parenting. It let me give up the part of my self worth that said I was a wretch who would always be broken in one way or another. I remember the first time I shared it with people I loved, and they all balked: “what about SIN?” And unfortunately those friends are still there, believing humans are garbage heaps until they accept Jesus. It’s rough, but I’m so thankful there’s another way.
I've struggled with this because I know how damaging the concept of total depravity has been for many people, but I've personally found so much freedom in it. I grew up being taught that I was made in the image of God, and God is good, but I was keenly aware of the huge chasm between what God was like and what I was like. It felt like maybe I was actually NOT made in the image of God, and I needed to hide that fact so no one would find out. Finally being told I was 'bad' was a life-changing paradigm shift. Only God is good and I am not, and that's okay! He loves me because HE is good, in the same way that I (imperfectly) love my kids -- they're goodness or badness is completely beside the point for why I love them. There is no why -- I just love them. It was as if being told I was bad suddenly made it stop mattering so much. Maybe I just have a shallow theology here or an incorrect definition of total depravity? I would really appreciate any insight because I don't want my kids to feel shame from the concept of total depravity, and I also don't want them to feel like it's a bad thing if they don't feel good (or good enough).
So I think maybe what you've experienced is closer to what I'm saying than it is to total depravity. (And language around this is loose in everyday vernacular, so I think the word is squishy.) But it's pretty core to depravity that people are wholly incapable of ANY good (which, like, watching people be both their good and bad selves shows is just silly).
It's not just "we can't save ourselves" or "we all mess up and it's going to be ok because of God". It leads to "you can't trust yourself because what you want is usually wrong and sinful" and "it's ok to control non-Christians because they can't be trusted to be moral", etc. Naming that people are people and God is God is just a good practice for being anchored in reality.
Oh that's really interesting. I've definitely been misdefining it. Thank you for the response!
The next logical question seems to be, was the way we learned about Jesus dying for the forgiveness of our sin off as well?
Yeah, that's an important follow up. For a lot of folks, the big thing is that it's narrow, with just one right answer. The "Why is Easter Good News?" series here is meant to help explore that one, just by looking at a few of the different ways the Bible talks about sin and Jesus' resurrection.
Raised Methodist, then spent 21 years, frustrated, raising kids in TULIP…still repairing damage in self and adult kids. This is a well-written description of what has been difficult for me to express. Thank you.
I'm glad it's helpful--cheering you on in that repair and healing for all of you.